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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
By the way I've slammed on the breaks and not had the breaks lock up. It's a really light bike, I don't think ABS is necessary unless you plan to race it or ride on bad weather days.
 

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By the way I've slammed on the breaks and not had the breaks lock up. It's a really light bike, I don't think ABS is necessary unless you plan to race it or ride on bad weather days.
Brakes.

As for ABS, it is intended to keep the tire/wheel from locking up, particularly on low traction road surfaces... wet, sand, etc.

No one doing track days or road racing would want a bike equipped with ABS, as it prevents the rider from achieving maximum braking at the limits of traction. An old road racing saying: To go faster, brake harder and later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Fair enough. I know better with spelling brake. Next time I will take a break to check my post before pressing send.

I don't race and therefore said something stupid. All I needed to say is I don't think this bike needs ABS.
 

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Motoky....I don't race and therefore said something stupid.


No you said NOTHING stupid,,,,,nothing at all. Since you have never been to a track to race so how would you know?
 

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Fair enough. I know better with spelling brake. Next time I will take a break to check my post before pressing send.

I don't race and therefore said something stupid. All I needed to say is I don't think this bike needs ABS.
No, what you said wasn't stupid... just uninformed on the subject.
 
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motoky - on - 'this bike doesnt need abs';
firstly, hitting the breaks strongly is like a strong handshake [say]
compared to falling off a cliff but grabbing hold of something
to save your life,, which is more like real emergency braking..

thing is, experienced motorcyclists have been involved in abs testing,
including under very well designed tests, using outriggers and so on,
which have shown that abs are worthwhile, in certain conditions..
bottom line being that abs versus non-abs on national road toll
levels [various countries] will save significant numbers of lives..

this the reality motivating eu and other legislatures to implement
specific laws such as the eu law coming into force 5 weeks from today,,
requiring all motorcycles over 125cc to be fitted with abs systems..

this law also requires that all motorcycles must be fitted with abs by 2017..

the un has a long term plan to reduce the ridiculous world road toll..
that means all countries belonging to the un will be effected by
ongoing abs laws.. trucks, busses, cars and, motorcycles..

hopefully, special uses such as racing and off road motorcycles
will be exempted or, have switchable abs [as on some bmw's]..

india and japan have made statements on abs laws..
bear in mind that these laws function thru motorcycle - sales -
ie, manufacturers must comply by developing abs brakes..

so its not now a matter of opinion as to whether abs works or not
or is needed on any particular bike.. the law to come into effect in eu
in 5 weeks will include all single track vehicles over 125cc..
[under 125cc will i believe be required to have abs or cbs]

racers are in the scheme of things already skilled riders,
capable of using brakes well according to conditions etc,
which cant be said for novices or many typical riders..
also, racing motorcycles are designed around weight,
ie, minimum weight.. abs systems add weight..

its not just the rider or the bike here,
rather the conditions, and especially
unexpected conditions when braking,,
just like a normally balanced person
treading on a banana skin..
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok so another reason to get the CBR300RF. Because you will have a rare bike without ABS when the laws kick in.

Look I get not only what ABS is, but I also understand how it works. It's great. Making it a requirement is maybe even a good thing. The system would be relatively easy to remove if you don't mind breaking the law or using the machine on tracks only.

I stand by my comment though. I do not feel a lightweight, low power motorcycle needs ABS if you intend to only ride in nice weather and not generally reckless. Being a new rider, one thing I have been practicing a lot is emergency braking. Since my last post I have been able to lock up the front wheel. Simply by loosening my grip on the brake lever the wheel begun to turn again and I continued with my stop. The braking power on this bike is very strong compared to other vehicles on the road and it would be quite unsafe to react with that level of braking in most situations anyway. Sure I understand locking your wheel while in a turn or on gravel wouldn't be as forgiving, but I don't think ABS is going to prevent you from dumping your machine every time in those circumstances either.

IMO: ABS is not a miracle technology, it simply prevents over reactive people from over applying brakes.
 

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It's easy to say a bike doesn't need ABS when braking on "good" surfaces. Introduce some slipperiness or a panic braking situation, and you get a different picture. I've read enough reports on the Internet about (even experienced) riders thanking their ABS. Like this guy on a Burgman. A deer jumped in front of his bike and he had to brake hard AND swerve. Consumer Reports say that riders who have ABS are something like 30% less likely to be involved in a fatal accident. They make up info like that. Actually, I can't understand why ABS is not standard on bikes in NA when it is on cars...
 

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It's easy to say a bike doesn't need ABS when braking on "good" surfaces. Introduce some slipperiness or a panic braking situation, and you get a different picture. I've read enough reports on the Internet about (even experienced) riders thanking their ABS. Like this guy on a Burgman. A deer jumped in front of his bike and he had to brake hard AND swerve. Consumer Reports say that riders who have ABS are something like 30% less likely to be involved in a fatal accident. They make up info like that. Actually, I can't understand why ABS is not standard on bikes in NA when it is on cars...
I believe ABS is now mandatory for all new street legal bikes being sold in Canada (as it is in the EU).

As far as I know, the U.S. has not yet made ABS mandatory for motorcycles, though it's probably just a matter of time. We are however seeing more models every year where ABS versions of the same bike are available in the U.S.
 

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This topic of ABS vs. non-ABS is one that has been argued and hashed out on internet forums for years. And while people have strong opinions about it, the bottom line is that for those of us who still have a choice of buying a bike with or without ABS, it is a personal choice.

Just because I chose to buy a non-ABS CBR250R, doesn't mean that I'm in any position to advise anyone else that a non-ABS bike is the right choice for them. No one on an internet forum can advise someone else which version they should buy... it's the internet, FFS.

I've been riding motorcycles for over 40 years, and I've never owned an ABS equipped bike. I learned to ride off road, beginning at age 10. And I had 10 years of riding experience before I ever rode a street legal bike on hard pavement.

That said, if I were a new inexperienced rider just starting out in the sport today, I would more than likely choose a bike equipped with ABS. Or better yet, I'd get an off road bike and cut my teeth on that first.
 

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I have owned only one bike with abs, and it seemed OK. I could still get a chirp out of the front tyre, but it never locked, even one time when a car pulled out literally in front of me and I had to brake on gravel.

Properly designed, ABS is a good thing. Early systems were terrible and it is a fact that many moderately experienced drivers could stop in shorter distances without it. These days, the technology is much better and I would guess that fewer than 10% of drivers/riders can do a better job.

There are a couple of instances where ABS can be a liability though. One is when you have to 'lay the bike down' rather than hit something head-on, such as a car pulling out in front of you. You do this by locking the rear wheel, which ABS won't allow. However, it takes skill, a degree of bravery and presence of mind, so most riders will just haul on the brakes and run straight into the obstacle. Consequently, I still think the benefits outweigh this unlikely scenario in the hands of most riders.

The other time ABS can be a drawback is on mud or snow, when sometimes the only thing slowing you down is the 'plough' effect that a locked-up wheel can provide, when the mud or snow piles up in front of the wheel. With most ABS systems, the wheel doesn't stop rotating and so the plough effect won't happen. Again though, this isn't a situation many of us will find ourselves in on a CB.
 

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it comes down to the idea of; 'needs'..
first real well designed outrigger abs tests
i read [and saw] included experienced riders
including regular long term riders and journos,,
the only one of them all to be able to outperform
the abs bike on the non-abs bike was a racer..

it takes more than the average practicing in carparks
and general riding to develop the fine and subtle
coordination and feel for wheels locking then
progressively releasing braking pressure
to avoid locking up/going down..

this motorcycle [cbr300r] like its pregenitor cbr250r
was and is as part of its design and target market
a novice motorcycle.. a learner approved bike [aust]..

this does not of course preclude experienced riders from
realising the excellent qualities of this motorcycle,,
the point tho being that this motorcycle will
attract a high percentage of - novice riders -
riders without, high level braking skills...

ive personally gone thru a lifetimes motorcycling
without abs, which didnt exist until recently..
never came off due to my rider error etc..

yet when buying this beautiful 300 single
i went for abs, mainly for resale value etc,
given that abs will soon be, mandatory..

i still dont feel a personal strong need for
abs brakes, and yet when my 3rd daughter
got her first road motorcycle, i would have
preferred an abs equipped model..

people throw cardboard packaging etc
out car windows, which aside from
wet leaves and so on can cause
loss of grip and wheel locking..

its like insurance..
you dont need it
until you need it..
 

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I approached a tight corner too quick, locked up rear and stacked my ninja 300. Sure it was my mistake and I learnt my lesson about having ABS. Prior to this I had a cbr250r with ABS and thus never had to worry about lock up which contributed to the lock up on the non-abs ninja 300. One week later I sold my ninja 300 and got a ABS cbr300. I will not consider buying a bike without ABS now. That crash taught me that I am human, I am prone to make mistakes, my judgement can never be 100% accurate, I am vulnerable to my poor judgements. ABS is there to save me from my mistakes and thus I thank I have it and not have to worry about locking up my brakes when I make poor judgements.

I think people who have never had their wheel lock up on them and nearly/actually crash can't comprehend how human and vulnerable they are to their own mistakes. When you feel that you have no control of your bike, the bike is fish tailing, you're shitting your pants and you suddenly realise that you're in for the ride where ever the bike decides to take you. That's the day when you consider giving up riding and whether all this is worth your life. From that day, I swore to never get a bike without ABS to save myself from myself.
 

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Personally, I don't use the rear brake other than for real slow-speed riding. At speed it can be a liability on a lightweight bike, at least without ABS, unless you are very experienced in how to use it. This is especially true when braking hard, because almost all the combined weight of bike and rider will be on the front wheel, making a read wheel lockup even more likely.

Because I don't ride fast very often, and so I know instinct and mechanical memory will take over in an emergency, not using the rear brake routinely means I'm less likely to stamp on it when I have to brake hard, such as the aforementioned example (too fast into a corner).
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hey Mike

Your so passionately politically correct, it's just the Internet FFS. Poster asks for opinions, others give there's, I give mine. Ultimately it's everyone's personal choice, but it's nice to hear from people on both sides of the discussion. But you must enjoy your high and mighty view from atop the fence eh? Not really contributing your opinion (other than you don't need ABS but others do) just looking down on others for sharing theirs... Also, Canada has not banned motorcycles without ABS.

Sorry for the rant folks, mikes been commenting like this after me on a number of posts lately.
 

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Hey Mike

Your so passionately politically correct, it's just the Internet FFS. Poster asks for opinions, others give there's, I give mine. Ultimately it's everyone's personal choice, but it's nice to hear from people on both sides of the discussion. But you must enjoy your high and mighty view from atop the fence eh? Not really contributing your opinion (other than you don't need ABS but others do) just looking down on others for sharing theirs... Also, Canada has not banned motorcycles without ABS.

Sorry for the rant folks, mikes been commenting like this after me on a number of posts lately.
First, my previous two posts in this thread were not in reply, or directed at you. I have to say that you seem to be taking some of my posts personally, when those posts clearly were not in reply to something you posted.

As for my post regarding Canada (and the EU), I did not say that non-ABS bikes were banned. This is what I said:

"I believe ABS is now mandatory for all new street legal bikes being sold in Canada (as it is in the EU)."

Big difference. And I'm probably wrong regarding the law, in that apparently that ABS on all new bikes in Canada has not taken effect yet... 2017 model year?

Lastly, it wasn't my intent to attack or call you out by correcting you on your use of 'breaks' instead of 'brakes'. I just happen to have a thing about motorcycle owners whose first language is clearly English, using the terms 'break, breaks, and breaking' to describe a technical component on an international motorcycle forum. It doesn't help our members in other parts of the world for whom English is not their first language, who may be trying to learn and use proper motorcycle terminology. Non-English speaking members already have a big enough challenge posting on these forums where posts are expected to be made in English.
 

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Interestingly enough ABS was not designed to stop people as fast as possible without lockup. It was designed to allow people to brake as hard as possible while still maintaining the ability to turn to avoid an obstacle. Keep this in mind when people say they can brake better without ABS.
 

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Interestingly enough ABS was not designed to stop people as fast as possible without lockup. It was designed to allow people to brake as hard as possible while still maintaining the ability to turn to avoid an obstacle. Keep this in mind when people say they can brake better without ABS.
ABS was actually first used on aircraft, to reduce stopping distance. The first road vehicle to have it was in fact a motorcycle, for the same reason. The ability to brake and steer was a secondary benefit, first observed on a car and was then marketed as the primary benefit when ABS started to appear on 'mainstream' cars.
 
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Well, there are plenty of (even new) bikes in Canada without ABS. Probably the worst offender is Yamaha. I really like the FZ-7. It feels like such a fun bike, but no ABS...in 2015/2016...seriously?
 

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Even here the Yamaha R 3 has no ABS and for 2015 no option for it. That was done I believe to keep the price in line with Kawasaki/Honda.
 
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