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... these little Hondas dont burn oil when new.
Agreed.

Incredible that a Honda dealer would even say something like that. If that were true, Honda Motor Co. would most certainly not enjoy the global reputation that they do for producing the highest quality small engines on the market.

Based on the info posted in this thread by the OP, there are a couple things that would seem to be clear...

1) If any small engine were burning oil at a rate consistent with the details of this case, ie. aprox 1.8 quarts in 1400 miles, it would have been blowing blue smoke out of exhaust at such a rate that no one could miss.

2) The fact that the bike went a full 1400 miles after the dealer performed the oil change, tells me that the failure was not likely caused by a sudden and complete loss of oil.


I suspect that the likely cause of this failure, is that the tech performing the oil change failed to refill the engine with the proper amount of oil. IMO, there is simply no other plausible explanation for this failure.


The take-away for others reading this thread, is it would be wise to not only check the oil level periodically... personally, I check the oil level in my bikes prior to the days ride... but to definitely check it before riding away if you had the oil changed by someone else (Honda dealer, indy shop, you best buddy, etc.).
 

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everyone should do a [quick] check of oil level pre-ride..
i dont, check before every startup, one local ride could mean 6 stops/startups..
do check oil every stop on long runs etc..

we park on a sloping road, leaning downhill, so must drop on one knee holding right bar/brake
to level sight window, but that only takes seconds, after regular practice..
parked on the level esp with a door wedge etc under stand, you can check level
approaching the bike, with virtually no inconvenience, brain having a frame of reference
from last and all past checks..


reckon its reasonable to call regular checking 'every time'
for purpose of warranty etc.. given its such an easy out if you agree to not,
checking every single start/restart every single time.. manual advice includes
novices with zero motorcycing experience, so its unrealistic imo to check all,
fluids and tyre pressures etc, every single startup, esp for experienced riders
who check tyre pressure when riding away and thru the first corner..
and who no doubt keep an eye on temp etc lights..


your claims court judge will tend to be more open to wider evidence etc
including your general attitude to maintenance etc and various expert opinions
on typical oil use and potential causation.. honda has done the right [pr positive]
thing in some such situations before,, stay positive as a consumer in a situation
most could easily relate to, in the sense of the victim..
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Got the bike back from the dealer on Wednesday. I'm in utter shock at the state they left it in and equally appalled at the way they packaged the components without any care to separate the more delicate parts or label anything (see the last pic in the album of my transmission parts in a bag, good grief). I honestly think they did this out of spite, unless someone can tell me this is normal practice.

Pics of the damage to the engine and the state they left the bike in:
https://imgur.com/a/Rd3ZRGo

I'm now in the process of filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau and the Bureau of Automotive Repair and we'll see where that leads. My confidence levels are at an all time low however. This truly is a nightmare now.
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Small update, the guy from the Bureau of Automotive Repair got in contact with me last week and he thinks the shop didn't do anything wrong. His reasoning was that if they failed to put oil in at all it wouldn't have gone 50 miles and its not likely (or provable) that they only put part of the oil and not all of it in. If it turns out the shop didn't do anything wrong that kind of ruins any efforts to go to small claims court. The BAR guy said he would try and work with Honda to maybe get them to cover it but I'm extremely doubtful that will go anywhere. I'm now looking into getting a used engine and installing it myself but these engines are proving harder to find than I anticipated.

edit: I'm super impatient I went ahead and made an offer for $1000 and the seller accepted it! The engine has 2601 miles and a compression of 205. I've already got some oil and a filter around here. I will need coolant and lots of threadlock. I really hope the dealership made sure to include all the screws and fasteners or this is going to be a rough installation :laugh: . I'm extremely confident I can handle it though, I've had lots of experience tearing apart bikes/cars/etc and putting them back together. Last year my Dad's Buell needed its fuel pump replaced so I had to remove the rear wheel and drop the swingarm and few other things to get at it. https://imgur.com/a/AGEv9vY Although it looks messy, it was all back together pretty nice and easily. I'd be riding that bike now but the kick stand broke off lol. That's the next item on my repair list. So I'm very confident that when I get the engine next week, barring any unforeseen obstacles, I can have it installed and running in a day or two. I'm so anxious to get back on the road I've already got my torque wrench and socket set out and ready to go. :nerd:

edit: Holy crap I just took a peak over the manual and my bike and realized something important: Everything I've ever worked on before/fixed I had disassembled first, and then reassembled. I seem to have a near photographic memory for how things are put together. Well when I started planning this out in my mind I suddenly realized I'm lacking all my memories of how it came apart... Because I didn't take it apart myself! So it might take longer than a day or two.
 

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Kyle, sorry for your shotty luck. But good luck with the install. "Lightningfrog27" has posted some awesome videos on this Forum, he's made while removing, disassembling, and tearing apart, an engine off a CBR. Excellent detail. You may go back over his previous posts and catch the one where he gives video and tips on the engine removal from the bike.
 

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edit: Holy crap I just took a peak over the manual and my bike and realized something important: Everything I've ever worked on before/fixed I had disassembled first, and then reassembled. I seem to have a near photographic memory for how things are put together. Well when I started planning this out in my mind I suddenly realized I'm lacking all my memories of how it came apart... Because I didn't take it apart myself! So it might take longer than a day or two.
I'm the same with mechanical things. Good luck starting at the "reverse of disassembly" step. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Kyle, sorry for your shotty luck. But good luck with the install. "Lightningfrog27" has posted some awesome videos on this Forum, he's made while removing, disassembling, and tearing apart, an engine off a CBR. Excellent detail. You may go back over his previous posts and catch the one where he gives video and tips on the engine removal from the bike.
Wow did I luck out there! I found his youtube channel with all the videos I think I will need to get this sucker fixed. Finally some good luck :laugh:. The engine shipped today and will be arriving Monday.
 

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That great Kyle. I will say a prayer that everything to go smoothly (no missing bolts) and I am looking forward to seeing you on the road and enjoying the bike. This will be quite a project for you to feel good about after its completed.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I'm now back at the house where the bike is being stored and am getting everything prepared for tomorrow. I've gone over the bike a little and tried to round up all the parts and screws I'll need. The dealership was nice enough to throw all the screws and stuff in a single unlabeled bag so I would have a fun puzzle to solve while I put the new engine in (how thoughtful).

Some more images of the engine damage, this time of the top end:
https://imgur.com/a/xwXPoPi

And my prep work:
https://imgur.com/a/GA4hTfb


Annoyingly there are a few loose parts I've encountered that I didn't see in any of Lightningfrog27's videos so I am going to rewatch them all again and then go over the schematics and see if I can figure out whats up. It also occurred to me that the screw count in the bag is a bit light. The bike frame itself still has many screws on it, screwed back in by the tech who worked on it. More alarming was all the loose parts (some just sitting on the bike) I found. This is alarming because the bike made a 30 mile trip on a tow truck through southern california traffic before getting to me.... with lose parts all over it :( . I can only hope nothing fell off on the journey home. The dealership made absolutely no effort to make the bike ready to be transported on a flatbed even after I gave them several days notice.

Anyway, tomorrow is going to be very interesting. Will take lots of pictures. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
After a bit of sweat and blood phase 1 is complete. I think this was the hardest part (or at least I hope it was) :).

https://imgur.com/a/Sanq9dB


Just in case anyone was wondering, the bare minimum tools required to get the engine installed was some wood blocks, a hydraulic jack, and a rear jack stand. I had some trouble getting the engine angled correctly until I rolled the front of the bike onto some wood blocks to raise it up. Some actual service stands and a buddy probably makes this a 30 minute job. Took me about an hour all alone but its done and I'm ecstatic.
 

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Did you buy the bike brand new from the same dealership that is treating you so badly? I am truly appalled to hear of the way they have handled this affair.

This is truly disgusting. Def write them a bad review on Google and Yelp.

I would be mad as a Hornet. A Honda Hornet 900
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Did you buy the bike brand new from the same dealership that is treating you so badly? I am truly appalled to hear of the way they have handled this affair.

This is truly disgusting. Def write them a bad review on Google and Yelp.

I would be mad as a Hornet. A Honda Hornet 900
Yup, same dealer I bought it from new (with extended warranty) and got all the service done at. I had hoped keeping it with all the same people would increase my odds of success. :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
When do you anticipate being through with your install, and ready to ride? And would you keep us all abreast of your progress?
I'm hoping to finish before Friday. I'm waiting on a couple parts to come in from amazon before i can complete everything.

More pressing however is an issue I've just discovered dropping a North Carolina engine into a California bike: The PCV Valve, or lack-thereof on the replacement engine. My bike has a purge control solenoid that connects directly to the PCV Valve nipple on the intake flange of the engine. I'm not sure if I should pull out the solenoid (it has an electrical connection so I dont really want to do that) or just cap the tube that now leads nowhere (or should I leave it vented?). I'm going to cap it for now and leave the cap in a place I can remove it later if I need to.

I'm currently installing the airbox and gas tank.

edit: the system im talking about above is described in the service manual on page 1-42 EVAPORATIVE EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM (AC type only). The tube in question is the one connecting to intake nipple. It looks like from the description in the manual that its just excess fuel vapor so I can probably just vent that to atmosphere without any issue.


edit2: So also at this point with most of the electrical connections on my bike doesn't turn on when I turn the key. The battery is connected buy I don't have my multimeter so I don't know if its dead (shouldn't be). Assuming the dealership did some sort of service disconnect that was quicker than removing the battery connections, what would that be?
 

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Kyle, are you saying no power to anything on the bike.. lights, dash, turn signals, horn... and you're sure the "kill Switch" is off like it's supposed to be?? If so, start looking for the main fuse to start with. Even a weak battery will turn on part of the dash display.
 

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Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
Kyle, are you saying no power to anything on the bike.. lights, dash, turn signals, horn... and you're sure the "kill Switch" is off like it's supposed to be?? If so, start looking for the main fuse to start with. Even a weak battery will turn on part of the dash display.
Oops sorry false alarm, It was just the battery after all. I went to the hardware store and got a cheap mutlimeter and saw the battery was dead, like capital D, dead - didn't even make the needle wiggle on the meter. Have it on the trickle charger right now.

So I got the airbox and gas tank installed, got oil and coolant in her, and started her up with a jump starter. Took a couple turns but she fired right now. I turned it right back off, letting the coolant and oil work their way into the small passages. So I've been starting it, letting it run for 5 seconds, then I kill it and wait for things to settle so I can top fluids off. I didn't put the exhaust on yet so I am doing that as I let things settle.

Things left to do now:
Wheel alignment - I lost my chain alignment tool so tomorrow I am picking one up and finishing that.
Fairings
Test ride

I think that's it, but I have a habit of getting ahead of myself so I will spend the night going over everything in my head. But barring any unforeseen obstacles, I think Im going to be riding this baby tomorrow. :D

I have pics and video to upload but Im sitting on the floor of the garage right now posting this, will add all that later.


edit2: Pics!

https://imgur.com/a/tkmCSoT
https://streamable.com/23qyx

edit3:

I have a mystery part I'm hoping one of you can identify for me: https://imgur.com/a/7PI8Vtv
I've been over the partzilla diagrams for this bike so many times and I can't seem to find it anywhere.
 

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... The PCV Valve, or lack-thereof on the replacement engine. My bike has a purge control solenoid that connects directly to the PCV Valve nipple on the intake flange of the engine. I'm not sure if I should pull out the solenoid (it has an electrical connection so I dont really want to do that) or just cap the tube that now leads nowhere (or should I leave it vented?). I'm going to cap it for now and leave the cap in a place I can remove it later if I need to.
I've removed the EVAP canister from my Ninja. Leave the tube coming from the fuel tank unplugged so it can vent into the atmosphere and if you can locate where the canister expels into the intake system then plug that connection point.
 

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nice washup.. until the alignment tool arrives, you can get an idea of true running [on rear stand] after normal alignment by eye-balling the moving chain from the rear.. like sighting a rifle..
even hand turning looking for flexing helps, but also running in gear..
 

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Hi Kyle, ah the mystery part in every IKEA box lol. Seriously though that part looks like goes just to the left of the right side crankcase cover. I'm sorry I can't figure out how to post a picture but if you go from the embossed HONDA on the cover it's just below and to the left of the H. Hope that helps a little. I can't find it on any Partzilla diagram either.
 
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