Honda CBR 300 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In 2009 I got back into motorcycling after being away from it for 15 years. My choice of ride at that time was the CBR 125 R. This model was available in Canada and the rest of the World but not the USA. The 125 Frame looked to be to be pretty robust and strong with it's thick twin spar sections surrounding the gas tank. Very G.P. (Grand Prix) like to me.

A few years later as you well know the CBR 250 R followed the CBR 125 R and now we have the CBR 300 R. But if you look at the Frames of the new Honda 300 series both R and F ... to me the frame pales in comparison to the older CBR 125 R frame...it looks "cheapened" to me even though the 300 series bikes have twice the H.P.(30 vs 14) and alot more torque than the older CBR 125 R machines ever thought of having.

Any one care to guess why this has been done? Cost cutting perhaps? Maybe the new 300 Frames are cheaper to produce and lighter too than the 125 R frame but to me the 125 R frame looks much more robust.
Left pic 125 R frame...................Right pic 300 series frame.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,009 Posts
The 250R/300R "Trellis" design frame definitely looks to be lighter than the 125R frame, and at the same time it's going to be at least as strong (or stronger) than the box section twin spar design used on the 125R. I'm guessing that the 250R/300R frame costs less to produce than the 125R frame. Besides all that, there may have been physical size/engine fitment considerations that made the 125R frame unsuitable for use with the 250R/300R motor.

 
  • Like
Reactions: CDNHONDAR

·
Registered
Joined
·
401 Posts
125 frames heavier because Honda knows noobs have a higher risk of falling off, as my young neighbour has, twice in a month. Lots of zip ties and tape on it now, forks twisted in yolks both times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
125 frames heavier because Honda knows noobs have a higher risk of falling off, as my young neighbour has, twice in a month. Lots of zip ties and tape on it now, forks twisted in yolks both times.
Epic answer Mark! I love it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,461 Posts
Interesting observation, looks like they have gone with the lighter tube and used triangulation for strength over the tricker/big bike look of the spar beam. I'm not a fan of the steel frame at all but I appreciate that the bike has been built to a price point.
I don't think we had the CBR125 here, will have a look when i get a chance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
The 125 R that I used to have..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ruben

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,461 Posts
The 125 R that I used to have..
Thats a smart looking machine for a 125. In particular I like the colour scheme.
The frame does look a bit 90's ish tho, reminds me of the ZXR Kawasaki, which isn't necessarily a bad thing!
It appears we did get this bike in NZ, not sure how I missed it. :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks Kiwi.. That year 2008 model the bikes were available in Red,,,White,,,Black. To me white was the way to go. The next year 2009 they were available in Tri-Color with gold wheels which is sill my favorite color combo.

I found my old 125 for sale this past Summer with low miles (KMS) on it and was tempted to buy it back...but my heart was and still is for a Tri-Color 300 R.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2R5HmEwBNs
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,009 Posts
... The next year 2009 they were available in Tri-Color with gold wheels which is sill my favorite color combo...
Gold wheels just look right on a Honda Tri-Color paint scheme. IMO, the 2012 CBR250R really should have had Gold colored wheels from the factory, instead of the silver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,498 Posts
I have no idea about the relative quality of the two frames in terms of weight versus stiffness, but I think it's pretty clear that the 300's frame was, like the rest of the bike, designed to be cheap. I have said a few times elsewhere that the 300 is essentially a low-spec bike dressed up to look like a sports bike, which it isn't by any stretch of the imagination.

Because I knew this from the start, I am very happy with my purchase. Looked at in terms of 'bike for your buck', it's the best I've ever owned. It does all the things I need it to do, looks great, has Honda build quality and cost the square root of bugger all.

For me, the limiting factor regarding handling on the 300 is not the frame but the forks and swingarm, both of which are pretty weedy items. Perfect for the job, don't get me wrong, but IMO an owner would be wasting money buying (for instance) a decent rear shocker when the swingarm is so feeble. Likewise, the forks probably have a fair bit of flex in them, so sticky tyres and fancy internals would provide limited benefits.

By all means go ahead and fiddle for the fun of it - you will get some reward - just don't expect too much.

Again, as I have said before, if you want decent performance, the only option is to jack the bike up by the number plate and fit a CBR600RR to the front of it. Cheaper, too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Gold wheels just look right on a Honda Tri-Color paint scheme. IMO, the 2012 CBR250R really should have had Gold colored wheels from the factory, instead of the silver.
OOHH! Steady Eddie Lawson... How I miss GP 500 racing..:(
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,009 Posts
I have no idea about the relative quality of the two frames in terms of weight versus stiffness, but I think it's pretty clear that the 300's frame was, like the rest of the bike, designed to be cheap. I have said a few times elsewhere that the 300 is essentially a low-spec bike dressed up to look like a sports bike, which it isn't by any stretch of the imagination...
While the CBR250R/300R is built to a low price point, that doesn't mean it is not a 'sport bike'... in fact, it is the frame design and frame geometry which defines these motorcycles as a sport bike. One certainly wouldn't categorize the CBR250R/300R as a Cruiser, Touring, Adventure, or Dual Sport bike, all of which utilize very different frame geometry and design from one another according to their intended purpose.

And Honda isn't the only motorcycle manufacturer to use a Trellis design for their sport bike frames...

Ducati Monster frames...




KTM 1290 Super Duke frame...


KTM RC390 frame...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,498 Posts
While the CBR250R/300R is built to a low price point, that doesn't mean it is not a 'sport bike'... in fact, it is the frame design and frame geometry which defines these motorcycles as a sport bike. One certainly wouldn't categorize the CBR250R/300R as a Cruiser, Touring, Adventure, or Dual Sport bike, all of which utilize very different frame geometry and design from one another according to their intended purpose.

And Honda isn't the only motorcycle manufacturer to use a Trellis design for their sport bike frames...
I know a trellis frame can be used in high-performance bikes; that wasn't my point. I think it is clear though that the 300's frame is not very sophisticated in comparison with the frame on, say the CBR1000RR.

I don't put the 300R in any of the categories you list, though the 300F would qualify as a small-capacity tourer. I think that, on paper and putting the styling on one side, it is essentially a 'streetbike', having none of the features that would make it 'sporty'. For me, that would be something spec-wise like a CBR600RR with a smaller engine fitted.

Only the KTM 390 approaches sportsbike qualities in the CBR300's niche, IMO, and even then it could be argued to be a different concept.

As for geometry, I'd say the 300 is only just on the fast side of neutral (similar to a Suzuki TU250, it turns out). It isn't lazy, but it isn't sharp, either. As Goldilocks would say........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Looking and sounding good! I'd probably hate it after half a day on a long tour tho :D
I see the smile....but just in case why would you hate it??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,565 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I have no idea about the relative quality of the two frames in terms of weight versus stiffness, but I think it's pretty clear that the 300's frame was, like the rest of the bike, designed to be cheap. I have said a few times elsewhere that the 300 is essentially a low-spec bike dressed up to look like a sports bike, which it isn't by any stretch of the imagination.

Because I knew this from the start, I am very happy with my purchase. Looked at in terms of 'bike for your buck', it's the best I've ever owned. It does all the things I need it to do, looks great, has Honda build quality and cost the square root of bugger all.

For me, the limiting factor regarding handling on the 300 is not the frame but the forks and swingarm, both of which are pretty weedy items. Perfect for the job, don't get me wrong, but IMO an owner would be wasting money buying (for instance) a decent rear shocker when the swingarm is so feeble. Likewise, the forks probably have a fair bit of flex in them, so sticky tyres and fancy internals would provide limited benefits.

By all means go ahead and fiddle for the fun of it - you will get some reward - just don't expect too much.

Again, as I have said before, if you want decent performance, the only option is to jack the bike up by the number plate and fit a CBR600RR to the front of it. Cheaper, too.
I agree with some of your statements above but not all. (respectively of course!)

The CBR 300 R is raced extensively in Asia in a series that dictates the bikes remain mainly in stock form. These bikes are considered by some as "Commuter Bikes" but to some people (me included) they are much more than that. Sure the rear swing arm is made from box section steel and is a basic design and may not be as strong as the latest and greatest thing but it gets the job done. Same IMHO as the frame and the front forks.
Now if the components were not up to the task of aggressive riding as pictured below...there would be no Sanctioned racing supported by Honda for this model. Just ask a CBR 250 R racer or Ari Henning about racing this bike...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,009 Posts
Over on the CBR250R forum this idea that "these motorcycles were intended to be Commuter Bikes'" has been thrown around since that website first started. It's funny too, as Honda doesn't have a model category called Commuter Bikes, because there isn't such a thing. Any bike can be used to commute with, from a Grom to a Goldwing to a CBR1000RR. I saw a guy yesterday morning riding to work on a Vultus (first one I've seen on the road). Of course some models are better suited to commuting than other models are. Ten years ago, I rode my XR650L to work on a regular basis over the course of a couple summers. It's a great bike for commuting, however that doesn't change the fact that it's a Dual Sport bike.

JNO, if you look on the Honda Powersports website, you'll see that Honda has the CB300F in the "Sport" category (just as the CBR250R/300R is in the Sport category), not the "Touring" category... there is nothing about the CB300F which makes it a touring bike. Sure, if you were to install panniers and other bags on it, it would become suited to that purpose. But Honda did not design or intend it as a touring bike. If they had, it would've come stock with a windshield, and some amount of storage capacity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kiwi rider

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
A Prius makes a better commuter than a pickup truck. To be a good commuter which implies lots of miles and traffic as a rule, the bike ought to be dependable, economical, maneuverable, comfortable, and capable of highway speeds. That doesn't rule out the race bikes, Goldwing, DS, and Grom, but they wouldn't be the best commuter bikes. The 300 Hondas would be better. If I already owned one of the bikes you mentioned and wanted to use it as a commuter, I might, but the only one I would buy to commute with is the CBR300r.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,498 Posts
.....
The CBR 300 R is raced extensively in Asia in a series that dictates the bikes remain mainly in stock form. .......
I recall a race series in the UK that catered exclusively for Citroen 2CVs :D
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top