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So by looking at this website: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada, I was able to find a gas station in my town that sold non-ethanol gas. So today I needed a fillup and decided to try it as an experiment for 1 tank. It was 90 Octane and cost about .10 cents more than their 93 Octane. I have only ridden about 3 miles since and haven't noticed anything too obvious. I think at stoplights when idling the RPM guage is a lot steadier. I mean it didn't move a micro-millimeter off 1400rpm's. That is a bit unusual for my bike, at stoplights my rpm needle use to slightly vary +/- 40rpm's or so.
Btw I had 1 bar of old ethanol fuel before re-fueling. So there wasn't much left to mix with the new batch.
I know many guys from overseas don't care about this thread, but I will update for our U.S. and Canada members
 

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unless it gets in your petrol..

mikal - think of at least a few top-ups before
most of that ethanol is removed from your tank..

my 7 road hondas incl cbr250r and cbr300r
ran for years without missing a beat,
all on unpolluted petrol..
so theres nothing wrong with
pure petrol either...

check out light aircraft and marine
engine related manufacturer and
govt regulations on use of ethanol
in those engines, and why it is
rejected, on safety grounds..
 

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One bar on my fuel gauge not flashing is half a tank full.
In the north east of Thailand we can only get petrol with ethanol.
The Honda handbook states it can run on 91 E10,95 E10 and 95 E20.
Maybe this is why mine sounds like a bag of nails?.
Apart from the rattle mine runs sweet as a nut on 91 or 95 RON.(10% ethanol)
 

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We have one station here in Santa Fe which carries non-ethanol premium unleaded (90 PON). Current price is $2.22/gal USD. I've been running this gas in my XR400R, and have noticed a significant improvement in how that engine starts and idles during warm up, compared to the premium unleaded E10 (91 PON) which I was previously using.
 
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One bar on my fuel gauge not flashing is half a tank full.
In the north east of Thailand we can only get petrol with ethanol.
The Honda handbook states it can run on 91 E10,95 E10 and 95 E20.
Maybe this is why mine sounds like a bag of nails?.
Apart from the rattle mine runs sweet as a nut on 91 or 95 RON.(10% ethanol)
Here in the U.S., the Honda Owner's Manual states that fuel should contain no more than 10% ethanol.
 
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I avoid the stuff. As with most initiatives driven by ideology rather than economics, there are significant downsides. My own experience using the stuff says it costs about 10% less than 'normal' petrol here in Oz, but I get about 10% less mileage, so no reason to buy it if saving money is your aim.

If you're attracted by the environmental benefits then I hope you've done your research, because the reduced emissions (proven) when burning the stuff is largely cancelled out by the extra energy required to make it, versus petrol (if not completely cancelled out, depending on where the production energy came from).

For countries with no energy (oil) security but an excess of productive agricultural land, ethanol has merit. There are few countries like this however, and some in this category have learned that an unforseen result has been to create food shortages and/or higher food costs.
 

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Most gas stations have "upto 10% ethanol", which means most gas stations are under.
Some gas stations (like Chevron) are closer to the 10%,
Some, like shell or BP, are closer to 2% than 10%.
 

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Most gas stations have "upto 10% ethanol", which means most gas stations are under.
Some gas stations (like Chevron) are closer to the 10%,
Some, like shell or BP, are closer to 2% than 10%.
And your source for these claims?
 

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Ethanol runs fine in most new cars. One problem with running it in older vehicles is that it picks up any scum and old rubber in your tank and lines and puts it in your fuel filter clogging it up. I have a very good mate that owns a mechanic garage and occasionally comes across a car very down on power or wont start not long after running higher ethanol fuels. Sometimes he needed to replace fuel lines but mostly they just needed a fresh fuel filter and away they went.
One place he refuses to use high ethanol content fuel is marine applications. I think it has something to do with accelerating corrosion not entirely sure on that one.
 
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.....One place he refuses to use high ethanol content fuel is marine applications. I think it has something to do with accelerating corrosion not entirely sure on that one.
Maybe the corrosion thing is true, but I know that ethanol is hygroscopic (attracts and absorbs water) which seems like a no-no for marine use. It is also a negative for vehicles that aren't used frequently and so the fuel might sit around a while (including fuel bought for gardening equipment that is used rarely).
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Nothing wrong with ethanol mate
Treve, do you live in the U.S.? If not you might not know the politics of ethanol. I hate it for more reasons than just testing if my engine runs correctly or not. I also hate the fact our Govt. forces the oil companies to use it in our gas and if they do not use it, like the non-ethanol gas I got they charge almost double the amount for it. They also give massive amounts of subsidies to the ethanol companies that make it. I wont go all political in a bike forum, but let's just say I hate it! :devil:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
We have one station here in Santa Fe which carries non-ethanol premium unleaded (90 PON). Current price is $2.22/gal USD. I've been running this gas in my XR400R, and have noticed a significant improvement in how that engine starts and idles during warm up, compared to the premium unleaded E10 (91 PON) which I was previously using.
Like I said Mike, this was my first fillup with non-ethanol and still had some ethanol gas left in the tank. I had 1 bar on my gauge at fillup. The first thing I noticed was an awesome idle. The needle didn't even move a hair and the bike was smooth as silk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I avoid the stuff. As with most initiatives driven by ideology rather than economics, there are significant downsides. My own experience using the stuff says it costs about 10% less than 'normal' petrol here in Oz, but I get about 10% less mileage, so no reason to buy it if saving money is your aim.

If you're attracted by the environmental benefits then I hope you've done your research, because the reduced emissions (proven) when burning the stuff is largely cancelled out by the extra energy required to make it, versus petrol (if not completely cancelled out, depending on where the production energy came from).

For countries with no energy (oil) security but an excess of productive agricultural land, ethanol has merit. There are few countries like this however, and some in this category have learned that an unforseen result has been to create food shortages and/or higher food costs.
Like you said Ethanol is more environmentally friendly, but there is pollution created while making it. But also consider you are getting less MPG's with ethanol over pure gasoline. So you are filling up more frequently, therefore using more gas which in turn pollutes more. Not sure how negligible the MPG loss is per 'pollution' saved, but it just seems like a revolving door to me.

When filling any marine vehicle here in Florida we use 'recreational gasoline'. Every pump I have used either on the road or if I fill up while in the water from a dock it says 'ethanol free'. It does collect water and I heard (don't know how true it is) that after a while the water separates from the gas. As most marine vehicles don't get used on a daily basis that would be a no no.
 

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I also use the non-ethanol 90 octane (PON) pump gasoline for two stroke pre-mix in my '91 Evinrude 6 hp outboard motor.

For my 'occasional use' Stihl chain saws and brush cutter I've switched to using VP Small Engine Fuel, as it has a much longer shelf life (5 years for an unopened can) and in-tank storage life. It is 94 octane (PON) pure gasoline. It's not cheap though, lowest price I've found is $100 USD for a case of 6 one gallon cans. I only use about a gallon of it a year, so $16.50 per gallon cost isn't going to break the bank. It can be had a bit cheaper in a 5 gallon can, about $75 USD.

 

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similar with lungs effected by pollution,
quick lung transplant and away they go..
people working in the asbestos industry
[and smokers] would say; "never did me any harm"...

obviously govt mandates etc forcing ethanol on
road engines makes it difficult for owners..
they may know of a light aircraft petrol source
or a marine engine source, both ethanol free,
based on safety, yet its still difficult for many
to avoid ethanol..

yet if there is ethanol free 91RON [87PON]
available in your area, its the obvious choice..

[sydneysiders]; castrol on maroubra rd south coogee
sells all petrol free of ethanol..
for me this is also an indication of
a general attitude to their business
and to their customers [me]..
 

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... yet if there is ethanol free 91RON [87PON]
available in your area, its the obvious choice...
I'm not sure on this, but it seems that here in the U.S. much of the available non-ethanol pure gasoline is of the higher octane, premium grade 90 PON. Which makes sense as those who will go out of their way to purchase non-ethanol gasoline tend to do so for use in small engine power equipment, marine engines, and older automobiles typically requiring a higher octane fuel.

As for newer vehicles designed and manufactured to tolerate up to 10% ethanol blended gasoline (like these CBR250/300's), while improved cold starts, overall performance and fuel economy using non-ethanol gasoline is likely, the more significant benefit is the inherent stability of non-ethanol fuel itself... the fact is that ethanol blended gasoline has an incredibly poor "shelf life", and turns to crap very quickly.
 
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Treve, do you live in the U.S.? If not you might not know the politics of ethanol. I hate it for more reasons than just testing if my engine runs correctly or not. I also hate the fact our Govt. forces the oil companies to use it in our gas and if they do not use it, like the non-ethanol gas I got they charge almost double the amount for it. They also give massive amounts of subsidies to the ethanol companies that make it. I wont go all political in a bike forum, but let's just say I hate it! :devil:
that's a good enough reason in my books mate :)
 

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I avoid the stuff. As with most initiatives driven by ideology rather than economics, there are significant downsides. My own experience using the stuff says it costs about 10% less than 'normal' petrol here in Oz, but I get about 10% less mileage, so no reason to buy it if saving money is your aim.

If you're attracted by the environmental benefits then I hope you've done your research, because the reduced emissions (proven) when burning the stuff is largely cancelled out by the extra energy required to make it, versus petrol (if not completely cancelled out, depending on where the production energy came from).

For countries with no energy (oil) security but an excess of productive agricultural land, ethanol has merit. There are few countries like this however, and some in this category have learned that an unforseen result has been to create food shortages and/or higher food costs.

the only part of this i don't agree with is the 10% extra consumption. The way ethanol burns means a bit over 33% extra fuel used to get the A/F ratios right. However 10% ethanol fuel should only burn and extra 10% of that 33%. if your ECU can tell how much Ethnol then it can adjust the mix.

I'm not sure on this, but it seems that here in the U.S. most of the available non-ethanol pure gasoline is of the higher octane, premium grade 90 PON. I haven't seen non-ethanol 87 PON available, which makes sense as those who will go out of their way to purchase non-ethanol gasoline tend to do so for use in small engine power equipment, marine engines, and older automobiles typically requiring a higher octane fuel.

As for newer vehicles designed and manufactured to tolerate up to 10% ethanol blended gasoline (like these CBR250/300's), while improved cold starts, overall performance and fuel economy using non-ethanol gasoline is likely, the more significant benefit is the inherent stability of non-ethanol fuel itself... the fact is that ethanol blended gasoline has an incredibly poor "shelf life", and turns to crap very quickly.

Adding Ethanol increases the octane number, Ethanol is 99 PON.

as for the extremely poor shelf life, we have E85 (85% ethanol) sit in drums for 6 months with no worries. It is hygroscopic but nowhere near something like brake fluid.
 

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the only part of this i don't agree with is the 10% extra consumption.....
You can't disagree - that's the reality as measured during my own trials :) I always favour empirical (observed) data over modelling.

Because I was genuinely curious and undecided, I was careful to measure it as accurately as I could, using four or five tanks of fuel and zeroing the trip each time. That's about as accurate as you can get without instrumentation.
 
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