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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I own a 2015 300F with about 3,000 miles, today while riding I noticed when I got off, it smelled like it was hot. Almost like a new exhaust pipe on a car smell. But as I said this has 3k on the clock, and it has had it 600 mile service at roughly 750 miles. Oil in the case looks clean and it is not burning any.

Now the past 2 weeks it has been getting very poor fuel mileage. 51-55mpg. It used to get 65 or better unless I ran it hard or spent my time doing 80 on the highway.

SO with that information, Any idea what could be causing my problem, Or should I get into a Honda dealer straight away?
 

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Just a funny remark,
I remember one day my bike smelled like something was burning.
Later I found some marks on the exhaust, and thought my boots must have melted, even though they had a good 5in of free space.
Turned out some of the debris under my boots, which got there when stepping in mud, started to fall off, on the exhaust pipe, and was smoking.

But anyway, I'd definitely go and check with a dealer.
Sounds like signs of an early detonation, or pinging. Perhaps higher octane fuel helps?

Might also be low on oil, or in need of fresh oil?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So, Oil levels have been and are still good.
The oil was fine until the other day looking all normal. So then I took a 70 mile ride and now it is black as coal. I called the dealer and then will be towing it.
There is speculation that their old tech installed the oil filter in backwards. Apparently that causes some bad stuff. I will keep you all updated.
 

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As long as you kept your receipt of the work done...then you should be good if indeed that did happen.
 

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........There is speculation that their old tech installed the oil filter in backwards. Apparently that causes some bad stuff. I will keep you all updated.
A known problem, apparently. I would want to be assured that no permanent damage has been done, and that this hasn't prematurely 'aged' the engine.

Does anybody on here know what a reversed filter causes? Presumably it interferes with oil flow, which means increased friction, therefore heat and wear, in the regions getting insufficient oil?

Don't let them just refit or replace the filter and change the oil. In my opinion, given the miles you have put on the bike since the service, I would want that engine torn down and inspected thoroughly, while it is under warranty

Don't ask for this until they have confirmed the filter mistake, otherwise, if they see a big claim coming, they may say the filter was fine after all.

Yes, I am that cynical.
 

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Does anybody on here know what a reversed filter causes? Presumably it interferes with oil flow, which means increased friction, therefore heat and wear, in the regions getting insufficient oil?
The filter is only ported on the side that seals against the engine and this is where the oil comes into the filter. Because the other side is not ported, the oil is then forced out through the pleated paper on the circumference of the filter and this is how the contaminates get trapped.
So, if you put the filter in the wrong way round then you are blocking off the flow 100%.
Obviously Honda have envisioned this scenario and have cleverly designed the oil filter housing so that there is room to fit a spring between the filter and the housing cover.
So when the flow is blocked off by an incorrectly fitted filter the oil pressure rises to a point where the spring allows the filter to move away from the engine port slightly and resume some flow.
I'm guessing this flow is not equal to normal operating figures tho as it appears you can still do some damage to your engine over a period of time .
Still, that's better than the instant meltdown scenario of no flow at all!
 

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That is a good observation Kiwi....but...why would not Honda design it so that the oil filter cannot be installed backwards?? Obviously they are aware that it could happen but as you said above.......
"So when the flow is blocked off by an incorrectly fitted filter the oil pressure rises to a point where the spring allows the filter to move away from the engine port slightly and resume some flow.
I'm guessing this flow is not equal to normal operating figures tho as it appears you can still do some damage to your engine over a period of time .
Still, that's better than the instant meltdown scenario of no flow at all!"
 

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That is a good observation Kiwi....but...why would not Honda design it so that the oil filter cannot be installed backwards?? Obviously they are aware that it could happen but as you said above...


Not sure but possibly because of production costs. It's easier and cheaper to produce something of a symmetrical shape.
I wish they would go to spin on/spin off external filters.
 

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The filter is only ported on the side that seals against the engine and this is where the oil comes into the filter. Because the other side is not ported, the oil is then forced out through the pleated paper on the circumference of the filter and this is how the contaminates get trapped.
So, if you put the filter in the wrong way round then you are blocking off the flow 100%.
Obviously Honda have envisioned this scenario and have cleverly designed the oil filter housing so that there is room to fit a spring between the filter and the housing cover.
So when the flow is blocked off by an incorrectly fitted filter the oil pressure rises to a point where the spring allows the filter to move away from the engine port slightly and resume some flow.
I'm guessing this flow is not equal to normal operating figures tho as it appears you can still do some damage to your engine over a period of time .
Still, that's better than the instant meltdown scenario of no flow at all!
Kiwi's description is partly correct, except that the oil path is in the opposite direction from what he described...

Oil is drawn from the sump by the oil pump, which forces the oil into the filter housing, where it is forced through the paper pleats on the outside of the filter (so contaminates are trapped on the outside of the filter pleats). Then the filtered oil, which is now inside the oil filter, passes into the port on the backside of the filter housing, and from there is distributed through a series of internal passages to the main crankshaft bearings, big end connecting rod bearing, and transmission bearings. At the same time another internal passage delivers filtered oil to the top of the cylinder head to lubricate the cams and rocker bearings.

For those of you who have a copy of the CBR300R/RA-CB300F factory Service Manual, there should be a schematic diagram showing the path of oil flow through the engine & transmission in the section of the S/M titled Lubrication (the CBR250R Service Manual shows this same oil flow schematic on page 4-2).

As for the problem of the oil filter being installed backwards, the result is that very little to no oil will be able to flow through the internal passageways to all of those bottom end bearings and to the valve train components in the cylinder head.

We've seen a number of CBR250R's where the oil filter was installed backwards, and the first part of the engine that seems to sustain damage after some running time are the camshaft lobes & cam bearing surfaces, and rocker arms & bearings. Some have also had crankshaft bearing damage, as well cylinder wall scoring, likely due to longer running time before the engine finally locks up.
 

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Kiwi's description is partly correct, except that the oil path is in the opposite direction from what he described...
Moral of the story is don't believe everything you read on the internet! :D

I remember seeing particles on the outside of my filter when I looked at it after the first service so I was not sure about the quoted flow direction as well. Should have followed this thought and looked into it further, last thing we need on here is wrong info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well kids. It was sorted out. Many months and arguments with Honda and the dealer it has been fixed. With a new motor. All new. Dealer even provided me a 4 year warranty on the whole bike. So. All in all, not bad. Still have problems with fuel consumption. But I have only ridden it a few hundred miles, Since I got it back. Maybe I just ride it to hard. Idk.
MJ
 
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Well kids. It was sorted out. Many months and arguments with Honda and the dealer it has been fixed. With a new motor. All new. Dealer even provided me a 4 year warranty on the whole bike. So. All in all, not bad. Still have problems with fuel consumption. But I have only ridden it a few hundred miles, Since I got it back. Maybe I just ride it to hard. Idk.
MJ
What was the root cause of the noise and fuel consumption?
 

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Well kids. It was sorted out. Many months and arguments with Honda and the dealer it has been fixed. With a new motor. All new. Dealer even provided me a 4 year warranty on the whole bike. So. All in all, not bad. Still have problems with fuel consumption. But I have only ridden it a few hundred miles, Since I got it back. Maybe I just ride it to hard. Idk.
MJ
Possibly still a bit tight in the bore, may improve with more miles.
Good result tho, sounds like the dealer came through for you.
 

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another argument for doing your own oil changes..
then you know for sure what and how much oil
went in there,, plus correct filter install..

the question of why honda doesnt make filters
'impossible to install backwards' could apply to
any manufacturer of anything, incl helmets..

there comes a point where the onus is on
the consumer to put their helmet or
oil filter on, as designed..
 

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Yes Honda could engineer it more idiot resistant but there will always be a bigger idiot out there many of which work in bike dealerships. This is why I do not bring my bikes into dealers ships. It is usually use some idiot kid working in the back. Just like car dealerships most are just some idiot kid. I basically only trust myself to work on my bike...well a couple of folks I do trust but I ain't paying nobody when I can do it to my own liking.
 

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Yes Honda could engineer it more idiot resistant but there will always be a bigger idiot out there many of which work in bike dealerships. This is why I do not bring my bikes into dealers ships. It is usually use some idiot kid working in the back. Just like car dealerships most are just some idiot kid. I basically only trust myself to work on my bike...well a couple of folks I do trust but I ain't paying nobody when I can do it to my own liking.
Whoa... Let's not go too far, even if we are on the internet! Sure, some dealerships (and non-franchise workshops) are badly run and might employ "idiot kids", but it's unfair to suggest they all do. If that really were true, they would all go out of business, and/or the manufacturers would take their franchise away if the brand was being damaged.

By all means do your own work, and I agree that owners will probably take more care than an employee, but saying the professionals are all idiots is crazy.
 
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