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Discussion Starter #1
My last oil change was Jan 4th 2019 @ 2900 miles

I had been seeing small puddles of oil on the ground and I remembered that I had reused the old crush washer so I decided to change the oil today.

In the sight glass i noticed the oil looked very dark. When I performed the oil change today @ 6550 miles (that is +3650 miles since the previous oil change of 6 months ago) the oil was very black and dark.

This is with Walmart conventional SuperTech 10w40 oil. I think I may switch to the Rotella oil its only about $5 more and with the Rotella I would feel comfortable to go the full 8000 miles

Do you think I should be concerned about the dark color of the oil?

If you read my post below you can see that YES I used car oil:

https://www.cbr300forum.com/forum/warranty-service-issues/7081-what-engine-oil-7.html#post327312

I know this is very controversial and some people may get angry. I used conventional car oil 10w40 that is NOT energy-conserving. On a separate motorcycle forum many members swear by that particular oil and have gone many miles with no ill effects. I certainly did not feel any problems with the clutch or shifting.



EDIT: Dog-gone it. I think the "oil leak" i was worried about was chain lube! Dang it!!! I really should have known better then to fall for this trick since I have been a member of this forum for 6 months.

The problem is that I use CVT gearbox oil as a chain lube so when I say some drops on the ground and dipped my fingers in it and looked at it: It looks and feels like oil. Then i smelled it: It smells like oil.

So I basically changed the oil with only 6 months and 3650 miles on it and I did so by mistake.

Its very tricky because today I literally saw a drop of oil on the oil drain bolt so if the chain lube actually has the ability to drip down on that exact spot....It was enough to deceive me into doing an un-necessary oil change.
 

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Ah the old chain lube on the floor scare eh. :D
I change my oil around the 3K miles mark and it's generally fairly discolored, but to know accurately how broken down the oils properties are you would have to get a sample analysed.

Everyone has their own take on it but to me 8K miles seems like a too longer change interval unless you are using a full synth.
2 liters of semi synth + a filter costs me $28 ($18 USD) and I can do it myself, so why wouldn't ya?
 

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Yes the manual says 10w30 but that weight is not common to find where I live. 10w40 is not much different. Im also in a very hot climate and we never get any snow, only gets down to 50F degrees in the winter (thats 10C)

I researched the heck out of this topic and i decided to move forward with using the SuperTech car oil. It doesnt contain friction modifiers. The main scare was that it may affect the wet clutch. I was ready to keep an eye on it and if i noticed any unpleasant shifting then I was ready to dump the oil immediately and switch back to the Honda OEM.

But the results of my experiment where that this particular Walmart oil performed same as motorcycle oil. It may be that the companies have to pay money to get the JASO or MA certification (sorry but i dont recall the exact name) and thus that Walmart decided to forgo paying the money to get the certification even though the oil meets the same standard.

The bottom line is that for those who change the oil in 5000 miles or less I think the Walmart oil is probably fine. But stay tuned....on this oil change of yesterday I once again filled up with the Walmart stuff. If I have any problems I will certainly let the forum know about it.

i think the oils with friction modifiers will say ENERGY CONSERVING or ENERGY SAVING on the back in that little circle
 

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I have taken my bike to the dealer for an oil change once per year for the last 3 years (the first one was at 730 miles for the recall so it was free) and I just had the 3rd one done last week at 5,400 miles on the clock. I checked the sight glass when I got to the dealer and the oil was black as night. This was after 12 months and around 2,000 miles or so. I'd like to change the oil every 6 months and the filter every 12, but I am technically not allowed to change oil in the parking lot and the dealer is expensive at around $130
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I have taken my bike to the dealer for an oil change once per year for the last 3 years (the first one was at 730 miles for the recall so it was free) and I just had the 3rd one done last week at 5,400 miles on the clock. I checked the sight glass when I got to the dealer and the oil was black as night. This was after 12 months and around 2,000 miles or so. I'd like to change the oil every 6 months and the filter every 12, but I am technically not allowed to change oil in the parking lot and the dealer is expensive at around $130
Thanks, that makes sense as far as the color. With such low miles I think you are fine just changing it once per year. I was planning to take this one to 6000 miles in 1 year before changing it but with the oil drips I got nervous and decided better safe then sorry.

After I lubed my chain with the gearbox oil that I have been using as a lubricant (this time) I only dried off the 3 sides of the chain, all except for the side of the chain that actually touches the sprocket teeth. But apparently this was MY mistake..... because by leaving the lube on that side of the chain without wiping any of it off ............I think that is what caused excess lube to build up inside the front sprocket cover and then begin to dribble down and I was deceived into believing that I had an oil leak.

I guess i was being lazy as well. Im trying to get it to where I can lube the chain only every 500 miles rather than every 250 but the gearbox oil as a lube only lasts 300 miles before the chain looks dry. Maybe the canned aresol lubes that most of you guys on the forum are using will last for 500 miles?

but i have been applying 80w90 CVT gearbox oil with a small paintbrush and using that as my lube (to save money)

https://www.cbr300forum.com/forum/engine-technical-discussion/26334-experiment-80w90-gearbox-oil-chain-lube.html
 

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Does it feel gritty? Does it smell burnt?

Your rides aren't very short, right?

I wouldn't be overly concerned. But I am a firm believer in synthetic oil (just look at how many more stars it has on the packaging! ;-) ), and I ensured that I picked up the cert people say to get for the wet clutch (e.g., Rotella).
 

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Your rides aren't very short, right?
This is very important. I always make sure to ride/drive for a minimum of 15 minutes before shutting down the engine. It's just a habit of mine at this point. Not sure why I pick 15 as the number, but it is what it is. Like, the grocery store is 10 minutes away, so I take a longer way to get there that takes between 15-20 minutes. On my way back, I just go straight home.
 

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Oil and filter change at 3000 miles. Oil is Motul 7100 10/30 fully synthetic. Cost is irrelevant. There isn't a lot of it anyway. I like to be sure the engine is getting the best I can give it. Biking is my pleasure so I don't count cost on things like oil, tyres etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I would say that >90% of my rides are over 10 minutes long. And I rarely ride for over 1 hour each way. The bulk of my errands are 15-20 minute rides.

Yes when I use up the jug of SuperTech I will switch over to Rotella. I think its worth it for an extra $5 per oil change.
 

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I don't understand why so many motorcycle owners choose to drive themselves crazy about engine oil.
First, I do not think saving a few dollars on engine oil is a wise move. If Honda recommend their GN4 oil for the engine they designed and built, that is fine by me, and not expensive. Not worth risking getting an inferior product.
If you want to go for better, do what Kiwi Rider and myself have done, use semi-synthetic. Still not horribly expensive.
I use Bel-Ray.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I don't understand why so many motorcycle owners choose to drive themselves crazy about engine oil.
First, I do not think saving a few dollars on engine oil is a wise move. If Honda recommend their GN4 oil for the engine they designed and built, that is fine by me, and not expensive. Not worth risking getting an inferior product.
If you want to go for better, do what Kiwi Rider and myself have done, use semi-synthetic. Still not horribly expensive.
I use Bel-Ray.
I agree with you and i think that is probably the most logical and the safest strategy. To use premium quality oil.

But I am a gambler, i am not averse to taking risk and i like to push the envelope of what is possible. I enjoy research and experiments. I decided to take the Ultimate Risk and to challenge the common preconceptions and mainstream beliefs.

This is part of my philosophy of life. To go against the grain and to question traditionalism and "the way its always been done". All with the hope that my research will be of value to the other members of this forum. It is a journey of learning.

Somebody needs to "put these ideas to the test". So it may as well be me. :angel:
 

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I agree with you and i think that is probably the most logical and the safest strategy. To use premium quality oil.

But I am a gambler, i am not averse to taking risk and i like to push the envelope of what is possible. I enjoy research and experiments. I decided to take the Ultimate Risk and to challenge the common preconceptions and mainstream beliefs.

This is part of my philosophy of life. To go against the grain and to question traditionalism and "the way its always been done". All with the hope that my research will be of value to the other members of this forum. It is a journey of learning.

Somebody needs to "put these ideas to the test". So it may as well be me. :angel:
Good on ya, like your style. One of my pet peeves is some of the rubbish the manufacturers put in the owners manuals regarding break in procedures and shift points etc. New owners tend to take it as gospel.
The Ninja 400 manual is particularly bad: It says not to rev the engine above 4K rpm for the first 500miles. This is pretty much dangerous as 4K equates to only 45mph on the highway. Plus, on an engine with a 12K redline your dam close to lugging the engine at 4K rpm.

There's a guy on the SV forum who runs automotive oil (0-40W I think) in his front forks and swears that they feel the best with that oil in there rather than conventional fork oil. My take on it is that if it works for you then go for it and don't worry about what others think.
 

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One of my pet peeves is some of the rubbish the manufacturers put in the owners manuals regarding break in procedures and shift points etc. New owners tend to take it as gospel.
The Ninja 400 manual is particularly bad: It says not to rev the engine above 4K rpm for the first 500miles. This is pretty much dangerous as 4K equates to only 45mph on the highway. Plus, on an engine with a 12K redline your dam close to lugging the engine at 4K rpm.
I've read and viewed videos, (Ari at "Motorcyclists Magazine) was one, that pretty much discount the advantages of a slow break-in period. He didn't come out and say that, but hinted that the differences may be minimal. But the thoughts of not heeding the warnings, to some degree, just make me cringe. I seldom get a new bike, so I want to do all in my power to insure it's broken in properly, without getting run over from behind, in the process. What do you consider a reasonable upper limit on RPMs on an engine you've already described as 12K redline?
 

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Good on ya, like your style. One of my pet peeves is some of the rubbish the manufacturers put in the owners manuals regarding break in procedures and shift points etc. New owners tend to take it as gospel.
The Ninja 400 manual is particularly bad: It says not to rev the engine above 4K rpm for the first 500miles. This is pretty much dangerous as 4K equates to only 45mph on the highway. Plus, on an engine with a 12K redline your dam close to lugging the engine at 4K rpm.

There's a guy on the SV forum who runs automotive oil (0-40W I think) in his front forks and swears that they feel the best with that oil in there rather than conventional fork oil. My take on it is that if it works for you then go for it and don't worry about what others think.
Only issue I've seen with the 'I have a "better" alternative...' viewpoint, is when those people take their beliefs to the argumentative level (often hostile argument) on forums, and insist that others who go with tried n' true conventional methods/products are dummies. Remember MeeLee and his many wonky ideas? What I found most offensive about him, was his insistence that he knew it all and the rest of us were just clueless idiots. No doubt he was an extreme example of this.

I also can't help but think that the original motivation for many of these "alternatives to the conventional" are nothing more than a desire or need to save a couple dollars. And when nothing bad happens, they declare that "it" performs better than the conventional method or product.
 

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... What do you consider a reasonable upper limit on RPMs on an engine you've already described as 12K redline?
12,000 RPM... redline is the reasonable upper limit.
 

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12,000 RPM... redline is the reasonable upper limit.
I don't disagree at all with engineers who set the redline on their engines. I was asking more specifically about the upper limits on RPMs during the "break-in" periods of a new engine. Sorry, I didn't explain better. Kiwi mentioned the suggested "limit of 5000rpm" for the 1st 500miles, will put me at 43mph. My bike's owners manual states the same. I can do that, but 500 miles riding in circles in a vacant shopping mall would be pretty boring. What's your take on new engine break-ins?
 

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@airhead83 If your erring on the cautious side then 7 or 8K rpm would be a good maximum. Gets you moving with traffic and keeps the engine spinning in its sweet spot.
My dealer said just to ride it as you would normally, so that’s pretty much what I did but I didn’t break 10k rpm until I had a couple of hundred kms on it.

@MotoMike oh yeah I remember MeeLee!
Yeah I agree that the delivery of info is important. I got no time for crack pots.
 

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if its new, warm it up [normal startup, til revs drop], then ride smoothly thru the gears to say 7 or so krpm, then back down, smoothly with engine braking,, repeat that, with variations,, different speeds, varying gears used etc.. if your first run includes highway stretches, ride as if you need to slow down and speedup, not sitting on one speed or rpm.
rings etc need high compression pressures to seat in, thus smooth varied rpm is important..
hand built gourmet supercar engines are run til exhausts glow red on a dyno..

my new hondas had oil changes when we arrived home [or at mums place after interstate runs]..

all 7 hondas performed flawlessly after smooth run-in riding with varying rpm/speed..
 
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